Thank you for this post. You make some important and thought-provoking points. I do not know Liz Gunn personally nor have I had any contact with her, but given that I have been transcribing censored and shadow-banned testimonies since 2021 I am very familiar with her many interviews of jab-injured people and in general, I would say her style is indeed emotional and motherly-- bringing out the emotions of the jab-injured person, as well as her own (which, I would add, I find entirely understandable in the circumstances). It has been abundantly clear to me, in the case of her interviews with jab-injured people, that Gunn has been fiercely dedicated to advocating for the injured, for getting the word out about the injustice of their injuries, and more: getting the word out about the further neglect and medical gaslighting these unfortunate people have been and continue to be suffering. Big kudos to her for that.
Alas, I would agree with you that in the case of the announcement of the NZ data drop this same style of interviewing was problematic. I would agree, the whistleblower was not well-served to be presented as highly emotional, and needing to be coached to "breathe." It was a lot to get through before arriving at any discussion of the data. I also found it odd that Gunn stated that she did not know his real name, and that she was fine with that-- to me that made no sense when she was staking her reputation on him and, moreover, with his face appearing on camera, and given his access to the data, his identity would be made clear immediately.
Of note, my impression of Barry Young (aka "Winston Smith") was somewhat altered after having watched the video of the double-interview Liz Gunn did with him and UK MP Andrew Bridgen on the eve of the announcement-- a very interesting video throughout:
Thanks for your perspective and the great work you do.
I have seen some footage of Liz throughout the years and I agree, this has been her style with victims. At this point in time, and with the limited knowledge I have, my brain says it was just unfortunate, maybe greedy and self-serving. But my heart and guts just can't trust her - never did. It feels not authentic, like a performance. It will be interesting to see how this will play out. It could be a Psy Op trap. I saw Steve Kirsch in an interview yesterday and he was beaming with self-confidence, looking like a victor.
I find it curious that this data ends up with the most profilic anti-vaccine guy who also is part of the Kennedey campaign. Anyhow, we will know soon, I think. If the data is a Trojan Horse, they let him talk for a while about his victory until everyone knows and then they discredit him dramatically. I hope not. That would be terrible.
I am not 100% convinced about "Winston" either. But probably I am too paranoid and underestimate the pressure and stress both, Liz and Barry, are under and that makes people, including myself, do strange things. In any case, even if Liz is 100% legit, I think she still botched the whole thing terribly. It could have been such a short, lethal blow in more capable hands.
Yes - but Kiwis need to clarify to the international audience that "Split the Freedom Vote" means she made a hash of the opposition in the recent national elections in New Zealand.
Liz Gunn jumped into the race with deep pockets and a milquetoast demeanour . . . and muddied the waters. Her political party, weirdly called NZ Loyal, ran a candidate against the strongest 'Freedom Vote' candidate, Sue Grey, in the obscure West Coast electorate - Why ??? Must have been to split the freedom vote, agreed.
At this point we are anxiously waiting for the temporary Deputy Prime Minister, Winston Peters, to act on his campaign promises.
The most woeful part of this drama is that the number of Kiwis with at least one jab is aparently an obscene 90% . . . this will not end well.
You're correct, but I dont really think the regional votes counted for much tbh. The MMP system here means that 5% is the threshold - only then do Party votes 'count'. No-one in global history has started a party from scratch, without any political experience, researched and written policies, recruited candidates, built enough support and gained funding for campaigning within weeks of an election. For her to claim even the possibility of success was disingenuous at best...and then she botched the paperwork so didn't even get the candidates registered. Lying about it to her few remaining supporters doesn't help mend the social divide. She has a lot to answer for imho.
One of the things which concerned me when I viewed the Liz Gunn video - was seeing Barry Young's face. Sure, he gave the name "Winston Smith," but in this day and age, you don't show your face unless you want to be caught. I knew he was doomed, as soon as I saw his face. You think the NZ gov't didn't recognise him? Yeah, they found him quite quickly. Is this Liz's fault for not blurring or shadowing his features? Did he not request it? Or was he so desperate to get his news out, that he just said, "eff it, show my face if I must."?
Oh yes, same here. That was extremly odd. Why introducing him under a false name and then showing his face and stating he is the only database adminstrator for this MoH database? It was obvious that he would be identified straight away. You named three possible reasons but my gut feeling was that he wanted to be identified. He didn't want to hide, he wanted to be a hero and maybe be a role model. But then he didn't need to fake his name in the first place. Maybe Liz manipulated it that way. Maybe he didn't care. Hard to say.
Regardless of the way it was presented, it proves that information is available that is being hidden from the public ( who own it) making the government liable to investigations for several crimes..
If this had been done properly surely they would have gone through a lawyer and evoked the NZ Whistleblower act and released under that act .. That I do not understand .
Botched alright. It does make you wonder if they sat down and held strategy meetings to discuss who best to analyse this data and how, who best to break the story and when etc etc. Very cringe worthy watching for me.
I appreciate your honesty, integrity, dedication & hard work. I do find it very curious about Steve’s role in all this. He’s very outspoken and sometimes very aggressive & combative when it comes to data points on vaccines and getting the truth out. So, For him to sit back on this only to come out and bite the heads off critical thinkers, throws some red flags for me.
Anyways, my eyes and ears are on high alert when it comes to this story so I really appreciate your and Igor’s (and others) take on this.
Thank you. Appreciate the encouragment and it makes my day that my writings resonate with my readers. That's why I am doing it. To form a community of like-minded critical thinkers. Honored to have you all here.
There’s good reason for the inconsistencies mentioned in your observations. Liz lies. Difficult to see the facts once the waters have been so muddied. But start with the Counterspin Media presenters, and Liz’s background - some interesting context there, if anyone is interested.
See the guy in the centre of the Nazi salute image? Chapman and Alp are partners in ‘politics and media’ (spin) - get it?! I promise I’ll explain when I get time.
Now unfortunately, BarryYoung has aired this with an Internet shock jock. He will not escape prosecution and is looking at some serious jail time. He will be charged with breaching the national security act and and acting against the national interest.. He has breached the Official information act 1982, and at least two others. If this bloke is smart, he has released, now let those who can. deal with it and he needs to stop talking to the likes of Jones, and any of the Internet shock jocks. He is harming his case not bolstering it.
Barry Young was with Alex Jones . . . the muddle of names is a joke at this point !!!
Yes, Barry Young was criminally mishandled by Liz Gunn (Who is a lawyer, perhaps retired.) He does not deserve this drama. NZ is making a muddle of key info - again.
Yep I feel for the bloke he is going to go down hard and the new NZ government can take two paths, prosecute and make an example of him or step up and say, "you know what, we hear what is being said and its now time for a Royal Commission with the power to coerce mandatory appearances and recommend charges be laid if the data substantiates wrong has been done." Jones will go to jail or receive a suspended sentence but will never work in IT for government or business again.
Lol. The name mix up speads like a virus. I started it by repeatedly calliing him Barry White. Now he is Barry Jones. I think it has to do with his white hair and beard - unconsciouly - that I keep calling him Barry White. And he doesn't look Young. Funny.
Can't see why you'd lose subs over this post. Critical thinking and taking it all with a side of salt. If more people conducted themselves like this in 2020, we wouldn't be inside this shitshow. My gut felt cooker bait not long after the NZ story came up, I can't explain to you why, but my gut seldom leads me astray. I don't think it has this time either.
Unsubsribing is happening as we speak. My theoriy is that people don't want their resistance leader to be challanged. We are and probably always will be tribal.
They want to believe that everything about their leader is good and just follow a leader. It is too exhausting to think for yourself so you just pick someone that does the thinking and acting for you. If you challange the leader they get annoyed because it destroys their ideal little world. Ironically, I only consistently gain subscribers when I don't post. It deosn't rub anyone off the wrong way. Funny world we live in.
I also noted that posts with a positive note are less liked and get less new subsribers than "negative" news. I heard the phrase "fear sells" many times but it still somehow strange to see it in my own posts. Not that I deliberatly chose "positive" or "negative". I just write whatever I want to in a given moment.
You've probably read the book Tribe by Sebastian Junger. The keyboard warriors find it very easy to abandon their tribe in these cases. The reality is they hardly ever abandon the hand that guides them, even when that hand is exposed for the evil it is.
You just do you mate. Just consider it a culling of the people are too willing to get hooked chasing shiny lures. (to use a bad fishing analogy)
It wasn't too bad this time. Lost only four straight away and gained two, including a payng one - so I have to stop complaining. You are right, it is not a big deal and doesn't really matter. It's the work that matters. I haven't read this book but it sounds very interesting.
I agree and have been making the same points in discussion with friends.
I've concluded that Matthew Crawford is correct in his analysis that Kirsch, Malone (and Gunn, who hadn't featured when he posted) are not at all the straight bats they pretend to be, but are running interference in a Chaos Agent role.
Personally, at this stage, I wouldn't go that far but I keep an open mind. My angle is more based in human psychology and ego flaws. Every one who wants to become a leader - no matter what they stand for and if we share their values or not - has to be scruntinised. Everyone heard the phrase: Power corrupts. But not many apply it to their own. The Ego is very cunning, justifying our actions as "doing it for someone else, for the people, my followers", when in reality, it is all an ego trip. Words don't matter, action is all that matters. We are all prone to this, so no moral judging or theories are required. Just pointing out the obvious in the hope, leaders get a reflection of their ego's actions mirrored in society and self-correct before they get corrected, which is much more painful.
I totally get where you're coming from and that's my default position also. It's only because Crawford evidences several other behaviours in their interactions with him sufficient to form a pattern with this one rather than just an isolated instance. So I'm forced to consider it from a "fool me once, shame on me... etc" perspective.
I've tried to find something succinct but come up empty handed, partly I think because Crawford wrote prolifically during the active pandemic and then has subsequently divided his material into various threads, including one specifically on chaos agents. A few I found partially relevant as starting points:
I'll have a further look and see if I can turn up the articles I was recalling but meantime the index is a good start and has material on a variety of chaos agents he's tried to map out. The articles within threads also link to other articles in the same thread.
Omg, a friend just sent me this post. Everything you have said in your post is EXACTLY what I asked of others in the freedom movement and wrote a piece myself asking all these questions with a little more details. Great work
Thank you for this post. You make some important and thought-provoking points. I do not know Liz Gunn personally nor have I had any contact with her, but given that I have been transcribing censored and shadow-banned testimonies since 2021 I am very familiar with her many interviews of jab-injured people and in general, I would say her style is indeed emotional and motherly-- bringing out the emotions of the jab-injured person, as well as her own (which, I would add, I find entirely understandable in the circumstances). It has been abundantly clear to me, in the case of her interviews with jab-injured people, that Gunn has been fiercely dedicated to advocating for the injured, for getting the word out about the injustice of their injuries, and more: getting the word out about the further neglect and medical gaslighting these unfortunate people have been and continue to be suffering. Big kudos to her for that.
Alas, I would agree with you that in the case of the announcement of the NZ data drop this same style of interviewing was problematic. I would agree, the whistleblower was not well-served to be presented as highly emotional, and needing to be coached to "breathe." It was a lot to get through before arriving at any discussion of the data. I also found it odd that Gunn stated that she did not know his real name, and that she was fine with that-- to me that made no sense when she was staking her reputation on him and, moreover, with his face appearing on camera, and given his access to the data, his identity would be made clear immediately.
Of note, my impression of Barry Young (aka "Winston Smith") was somewhat altered after having watched the video of the double-interview Liz Gunn did with him and UK MP Andrew Bridgen on the eve of the announcement-- a very interesting video throughout:
https://rumble.com/v3ywe8p-andrew-bridgen-on-the-m.o.a.r.-data.html
Thanks for your perspective and the great work you do.
I have seen some footage of Liz throughout the years and I agree, this has been her style with victims. At this point in time, and with the limited knowledge I have, my brain says it was just unfortunate, maybe greedy and self-serving. But my heart and guts just can't trust her - never did. It feels not authentic, like a performance. It will be interesting to see how this will play out. It could be a Psy Op trap. I saw Steve Kirsch in an interview yesterday and he was beaming with self-confidence, looking like a victor.
I find it curious that this data ends up with the most profilic anti-vaccine guy who also is part of the Kennedey campaign. Anyhow, we will know soon, I think. If the data is a Trojan Horse, they let him talk for a while about his victory until everyone knows and then they discredit him dramatically. I hope not. That would be terrible.
I am not 100% convinced about "Winston" either. But probably I am too paranoid and underestimate the pressure and stress both, Liz and Barry, are under and that makes people, including myself, do strange things. In any case, even if Liz is 100% legit, I think she still botched the whole thing terribly. It could have been such a short, lethal blow in more capable hands.
The context is crucial to Liz - she deliberately split the freedom vote - is this about ego and that ‘motherliness’ just a performance?
Yes - but Kiwis need to clarify to the international audience that "Split the Freedom Vote" means she made a hash of the opposition in the recent national elections in New Zealand.
Liz Gunn jumped into the race with deep pockets and a milquetoast demeanour . . . and muddied the waters. Her political party, weirdly called NZ Loyal, ran a candidate against the strongest 'Freedom Vote' candidate, Sue Grey, in the obscure West Coast electorate - Why ??? Must have been to split the freedom vote, agreed.
At this point we are anxiously waiting for the temporary Deputy Prime Minister, Winston Peters, to act on his campaign promises.
The most woeful part of this drama is that the number of Kiwis with at least one jab is aparently an obscene 90% . . . this will not end well.
You're correct, but I dont really think the regional votes counted for much tbh. The MMP system here means that 5% is the threshold - only then do Party votes 'count'. No-one in global history has started a party from scratch, without any political experience, researched and written policies, recruited candidates, built enough support and gained funding for campaigning within weeks of an election. For her to claim even the possibility of success was disingenuous at best...and then she botched the paperwork so didn't even get the candidates registered. Lying about it to her few remaining supporters doesn't help mend the social divide. She has a lot to answer for imho.
One of the things which concerned me when I viewed the Liz Gunn video - was seeing Barry Young's face. Sure, he gave the name "Winston Smith," but in this day and age, you don't show your face unless you want to be caught. I knew he was doomed, as soon as I saw his face. You think the NZ gov't didn't recognise him? Yeah, they found him quite quickly. Is this Liz's fault for not blurring or shadowing his features? Did he not request it? Or was he so desperate to get his news out, that he just said, "eff it, show my face if I must."?
Oh yes, same here. That was extremly odd. Why introducing him under a false name and then showing his face and stating he is the only database adminstrator for this MoH database? It was obvious that he would be identified straight away. You named three possible reasons but my gut feeling was that he wanted to be identified. He didn't want to hide, he wanted to be a hero and maybe be a role model. But then he didn't need to fake his name in the first place. Maybe Liz manipulated it that way. Maybe he didn't care. Hard to say.
Exactly. One of many red flags.
Regardless of the way it was presented, it proves that information is available that is being hidden from the public ( who own it) making the government liable to investigations for several crimes..
If this had been done properly surely they would have gone through a lawyer and evoked the NZ Whistleblower act and released under that act .. That I do not understand .
Aly, I think Liz Gunn is a lawyer, but clearly should be disbarred for this abomination. It's a pity Sue Grey was not called in.
Botched alright. It does make you wonder if they sat down and held strategy meetings to discuss who best to analyse this data and how, who best to break the story and when etc etc. Very cringe worthy watching for me.
You would think so but it doesn't look like they planned that really well and got some feedback how to do this best.
Great piece. Cheers.
I appreciate your honesty, integrity, dedication & hard work. I do find it very curious about Steve’s role in all this. He’s very outspoken and sometimes very aggressive & combative when it comes to data points on vaccines and getting the truth out. So, For him to sit back on this only to come out and bite the heads off critical thinkers, throws some red flags for me.
Anyways, my eyes and ears are on high alert when it comes to this story so I really appreciate your and Igor’s (and others) take on this.
Thank you!
Thank you. Appreciate the encouragment and it makes my day that my writings resonate with my readers. That's why I am doing it. To form a community of like-minded critical thinkers. Honored to have you all here.
There’s good reason for the inconsistencies mentioned in your observations. Liz lies. Difficult to see the facts once the waters have been so muddied. But start with the Counterspin Media presenters, and Liz’s background - some interesting context there, if anyone is interested.
Thanks. Any links you have handy?
https://waateanews.com/2019/06/20/is-christchurch-the-capital-of-white-racism-in-new-zealand/ maybe start here? re the Counterspin staff. I'll write it all up at some point but up to my ears in impact investment atm.
I don't get the connection of that link to Liz Gunn?
See the guy in the centre of the Nazi salute image? Chapman and Alp are partners in ‘politics and media’ (spin) - get it?! I promise I’ll explain when I get time.
Now unfortunately, BarryYoung has aired this with an Internet shock jock. He will not escape prosecution and is looking at some serious jail time. He will be charged with breaching the national security act and and acting against the national interest.. He has breached the Official information act 1982, and at least two others. If this bloke is smart, he has released, now let those who can. deal with it and he needs to stop talking to the likes of Jones, and any of the Internet shock jocks. He is harming his case not bolstering it.
Barry Young was with Alex Jones . . . the muddle of names is a joke at this point !!!
Yes, Barry Young was criminally mishandled by Liz Gunn (Who is a lawyer, perhaps retired.) He does not deserve this drama. NZ is making a muddle of key info - again.
Yep I feel for the bloke he is going to go down hard and the new NZ government can take two paths, prosecute and make an example of him or step up and say, "you know what, we hear what is being said and its now time for a Royal Commission with the power to coerce mandatory appearances and recommend charges be laid if the data substantiates wrong has been done." Jones will go to jail or receive a suspended sentence but will never work in IT for government or business again.
Lol. The name mix up speads like a virus. I started it by repeatedly calliing him Barry White. Now he is Barry Jones. I think it has to do with his white hair and beard - unconsciouly - that I keep calling him Barry White. And he doesn't look Young. Funny.
Yea I just updated my comment to fix his name. I knew as soon as I saw "Barry White" your head was elsewhere with that one. LOL!
Can't see why you'd lose subs over this post. Critical thinking and taking it all with a side of salt. If more people conducted themselves like this in 2020, we wouldn't be inside this shitshow. My gut felt cooker bait not long after the NZ story came up, I can't explain to you why, but my gut seldom leads me astray. I don't think it has this time either.
Unsubsribing is happening as we speak. My theoriy is that people don't want their resistance leader to be challanged. We are and probably always will be tribal.
They want to believe that everything about their leader is good and just follow a leader. It is too exhausting to think for yourself so you just pick someone that does the thinking and acting for you. If you challange the leader they get annoyed because it destroys their ideal little world. Ironically, I only consistently gain subscribers when I don't post. It deosn't rub anyone off the wrong way. Funny world we live in.
I also noted that posts with a positive note are less liked and get less new subsribers than "negative" news. I heard the phrase "fear sells" many times but it still somehow strange to see it in my own posts. Not that I deliberatly chose "positive" or "negative". I just write whatever I want to in a given moment.
You've probably read the book Tribe by Sebastian Junger. The keyboard warriors find it very easy to abandon their tribe in these cases. The reality is they hardly ever abandon the hand that guides them, even when that hand is exposed for the evil it is.
You just do you mate. Just consider it a culling of the people are too willing to get hooked chasing shiny lures. (to use a bad fishing analogy)
It wasn't too bad this time. Lost only four straight away and gained two, including a payng one - so I have to stop complaining. You are right, it is not a big deal and doesn't really matter. It's the work that matters. I haven't read this book but it sounds very interesting.
I agree and have been making the same points in discussion with friends.
I've concluded that Matthew Crawford is correct in his analysis that Kirsch, Malone (and Gunn, who hadn't featured when he posted) are not at all the straight bats they pretend to be, but are running interference in a Chaos Agent role.
Personally, at this stage, I wouldn't go that far but I keep an open mind. My angle is more based in human psychology and ego flaws. Every one who wants to become a leader - no matter what they stand for and if we share their values or not - has to be scruntinised. Everyone heard the phrase: Power corrupts. But not many apply it to their own. The Ego is very cunning, justifying our actions as "doing it for someone else, for the people, my followers", when in reality, it is all an ego trip. Words don't matter, action is all that matters. We are all prone to this, so no moral judging or theories are required. Just pointing out the obvious in the hope, leaders get a reflection of their ego's actions mirrored in society and self-correct before they get corrected, which is much more painful.
I totally get where you're coming from and that's my default position also. It's only because Crawford evidences several other behaviours in their interactions with him sufficient to form a pattern with this one rather than just an isolated instance. So I'm forced to consider it from a "fool me once, shame on me... etc" perspective.
Do you have a link handy for the Crawford analysis?
I've tried to find something succinct but come up empty handed, partly I think because Crawford wrote prolifically during the active pandemic and then has subsequently divided his material into various threads, including one specifically on chaos agents. A few I found partially relevant as starting points:
On spectacle vs hard data:
https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/betting-on-a-spectacle
On the DMED data (click through a series of articles):
https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/dmed-timeout-reportable-events-shenanigans
On Steve’s hedge fund:
https://roundingtheearth.substack.com/p/kirsch-capital-equities-fund-buyer
An index to his content/thinking:
https://www.campfire.wiki/doku.php?id=rounding_the_earth:chaos_agents
I'll have a further look and see if I can turn up the articles I was recalling but meantime the index is a good start and has material on a variety of chaos agents he's tried to map out. The articles within threads also link to other articles in the same thread.
Appreciate your effort. Many thanks. Will dive into that.
Just created my own substack with the same info I wrote on my Facebook post around the SENSATIONALIST Liz Gunn interview with Barry.
Had to read that 55 times but Yes thats what I meant lol
Omg, a friend just sent me this post. Everything you have said in your post is EXACTLY what I asked of others in the freedom movement and wrote a piece myself asking all these questions with a little more details. Great work
https://www.facebook.com/robert.perham
and I thought we were fb 'friends'
interesting that your facebook is now blocked and I can't find it
Really, that's strange. What's your fb profile?
Try now